Could you confirm which engine you would recomend I presently have a 42 foot Maple leaf 24000 LBS
with a left hand prop (3 Blade 18X13 and spare 18X15 ) water line is about 35.6 feet
I have done some inquires and the unit suggested is less than my present Volvo Penta 62 HP I do not want to be under powered but I also am not wanting to burne extra fule if I do not have to I like to motor sail between 6 to 8 knots depending on tide I presently burne about 4 liters / hour. can you suggest please
The Beta 43 with 2:1 transmission will will do what you want and the Beta 50 with 2:1 will give you a good reserve of power. Both engines can be used with a left hand propeller if the correct transmission and oil cooler is fitted.
My prop calc gives the following results working on 24,000 lbs dry weight and 35' waterline: Beta 43 with 2:1 transmission - prop should be 18"x12" three blade with 50% BAR. estimated boat speed is 7.7 knots. Beta 50 with 2:1 transmission - prop should be 18"x13" three blade with 50% BAR. estimated boat speed is 7.9 knots. These estimated boat speeds are under engine power alone so motorsailing should prove very economical and quiet and relaxed.
Thanks Stanley I have a few mor questions if I upgrade alternator to over 100 amp do we still only use 1 Serpentine belt or do we have 2 grove V pully. Or 2 serpentine I noticed on another post someone changing pully? I have decided to go towards 50 hp unit I have fresh water supply coming from front of engine but I noticed that the raw water intake direction is straight down would it not interfear with other water pipe below should we have an elbow better yet a 45* I have a U joint on my present unit any special tran. coupling. I read overer and over how maintenence should be easyer but it looks like Oil filter, fuel pump ets on the starbord side of engine I have to approch from Port side so I would have to clawl over engin to change filter or blled injecters etc ? does the injection pump have self priming. how do I choose exhast elbow 6" or more etc once through riser we should be able to fall so the higher the better correct? I like direct drive transmission for a couple of reasons when sailing I put in reverse and prop does not turne I would hate to have to change too many things once I install as I have learned it is much easer when out of boat. PS do you have a cheet sheet that would indicate all the items required to do when repowering.
I have answered your questions below within the text of your post.
Stanley
Sergy wrote:
Thanks Stanley I have a few mor questions if I upgrade alternator to over 100 amp do we still only use 1 Serpentine belt or do we have 2 grove V pully. Or 2 serpentine I noticed on another post someone changing pully?
The single 6 groove serpentine belt works just fine with the upgraded alternators. The special pulleys and belt are included with the alternator upgrade cost.
I have decided to go towards 50 hp unit I have fresh water supply coming from front of engine but I noticed that the raw water intake direction is straight down would it not interfear with other water pipe below should we have an elbow better yet a 45*
The latest buildengines use a Johnson raw water and the intake fitting points to stbd
I have a U joint on my present unit any special tran. coupling. A new shaft coupling is included with the new engine and transmission. You may need a machine shop to remove the old Volvo coupling and fit the new one. This is an educated guess as I dont know exactly how your U joint and coupling are put together.
I read overer and over how maintenence should be easyer but it looks like Oil filter, fuel pump ets on the starbord side of engine I have to approch from Port side so I would have to clawl over engin to change filter or blled injecters etc ? does the injection pump have self priming.
This is fairly easy. Ask for the top mounted fuel filter as this is easily accessed (no extra charge for this) and also go with the remote oil filter (there is a charge for this!). If you mount the remote oil filter on a bulkhead, you should have easy access.
how do I choose exhast elbow 6" or more etc once through riser we should be able to fall so the higher the better correct?
The exhaust riser is made from 316 stainless steel and when the heat wrap is removed, this can be modified with an extra piece of tubing to change the height and angle. It is very easy to remove and refit this from the engine.
I like direct drive transmission for a couple of reasons when sailing I put in reverse and prop does not turne I would hate to have to change too many things once I install as I have learned it is much easer when out of boat.The TMC60 and TMC260 transmissions are designed so that you can leave it in reverse when sailing. This will lock the shaft.
PS do you have a cheet sheet that would indicate all the items required to do when repowering.
The warranty paperwork that is packed with the engine includes a check off sheet.
Thanks Stanley Iwas at the boat today and I have a few more questions. I presently have 2 connections of hose comming of the engine hot water one goes to heat exchanger for hot water tank, the common tee goes to heater in cabin, does Kabota have ports to accomidate. Or do we need to order diff. kit. I was taking several measurements today if I try to calculate the angle of shaft I can get 3/16 drop in 2 3/4 " how do we calculate the angle so we can tell if we need a angle on transmission so we can keep the engine level. as far as water level I get appro. 21 3/4 inch from water level totop of shaft. Thanks for your help.
Hi Stanley I have had problems trying to get accurat dimensions do you have a sketch of Jig. I here of, that can be made in the field so to help get better readings if so could you advise please.
Hi Stanley Sorry to be such a nucency but I want to do this right, I have just gone over old survey of boat prop and I see the following Propeller manufacturer: Campbell. Diameter & pitch: 18LH15. I know we have been talking 18LH 13 how would you proceed. any recomendation trying to keep the original prop size.
I have attached two photos of an engine jig. I have made these up in the past using the drawing of the engine that will be used and also using the flexible mounts that come with the engine. It is an easy job for any installing mechanic to make up something similar.
As far as the propeller is concerned, my propeller calculation is worked on a regular three blade propeller (like a Michigan Wheel DJ355 or MP3) and wont work with a Cambell sailer propeller. The reason is that the extreme twist that cambell put in their blades will lug the engine and they often get the prop sizing wrong the first time.
Thanks Stanley One other thought is time frame I start my vacation in July and I do noy want to order engine if it takes months to deliver, Is there a greater volume of engines between 43,50, And 60 HP is your stock in the US or do these have to come from GB?
Hi Stanley its me again. I pull the engine out tomorrow. I will take dimentions. it looks like the rear feet will be closer to 14" insted of 9 1/4 the drawing showes. It may mean I have to get feet of engine custom fitted. What is this cost or do we include in price of engine. Also I have been talking to Eathon in California and he seemed to think that the coupling is extra also if I am using a LH prop does this change the price If I switch to RH prop later is that an option seeing cooling tubes need to be added to LH prop? Which transmission do you recomend for 50 HP reverse gear?
You can use the TMC260 with the oil cooler on the Beta 50 and use a LH propeller but I advise you not to use your current propeller. It will overload the engine and you wont be happy with the performance.
A shaft coupling is included with the engine and transmission. A flex coupling is extra on all engines over 38HP.
If you need special mount brackets (feet), there is an extra charge for this. I do not discuss any pricing on this forum. If you do need special mounts, you must fill out the form and the factory will then provide a drawing for you to check. They will only build these after you have checked the drawing and signed off on the drawing. This does take time and your engine will be specially built for you. This will take a bit longer than getting a standard engine.
Thanks Stanley I have pulled my Volvo Penta engine yesterday. I noticed that the engine is level sitting but the rverse gear transmission hase an out put cupling half that is at an angle, I will most probibly need an angle off set on the transmission is there a genaric angle, or do we need to try to measure the angle, do you offer just one angle transmission or what do you suggest.
I need to know exactly which transmission you have before I can answer this.
If you use the Beta 43, go with the TMC60A transmission. This is also a 7 degree down angle transmission and is the same price as the regular TMC60 transmission. I cant post a pdf drawing on this forum so I have converted the file to a jpeg.
I am not sure if my transmissions can handel the 50, I do not like hydralic transmission so I would need to go down to 43 which I am scard of as all I read seems to indicate best to go more on HP not less. Does the 43 torque allow for my volvo transmission. Next time I have boat out of water I will switch propeller to 18 X13 but I was hoping that I could get by with the existing prop till next fall It has been driving boat for last 30 years and I hope it would last an other summer with a new Beta Marine motor.To remove my present coupling I would have to remove U-Joint from 1 1/14 inch shaft bring to machine shop as you suggested have them cut the old off and reweld new coupling half That is why I was hoping to use my volvo transmission so I do not have to do this hard task I beleive it will be heard to remove female from prop shaft. especilly when nothing is holding the shaft from following any pull I may exert on U-Joint. If I go up to hydralic tran for 50 hp I am faced with a tecnoligy that needs hydrolick pressure to hold the clutch cones together if I jog between reverse and forward it seems like a more volnerable tecnoligy. If the 50Hp and the 43 HP are the same why can we not use the same transmission option.
-- Edited by Sergy on Wednesday 29th of May 2013 08:15:26 AM
Thanks Stanley I think I will go with 50HP, Bobtail and adpter that way my universal joint is already set to line up with transmission. PS I saw the transmission ratio to be 2.3:1 this should be even beter than 2:1 do you agree. I was thinking that if I get feet custom built I may not want to try to go exactly to where my mounts are now as if I need to move 1/4" one way or other the holes in the timber would be oblong so I would be better off if 2 Inches closer to transmission output.
Had to go before thanking you again can you supply size of adaptor kit is there a spacer plate etc. if so I need to know so I can figer the location of feet. thanks again
I will be able to provide a drawing for you in a few days. Are you sure that the MS2B can handle the power of the Beta 50?
Remember that the Volvo MD30 developed its max HP at 3,800 RPM whereas the Beta 50 develops its max power at 2,800. Similarily the Beta 50 develops 130NM torque at 1,000 RPM with a max of 148NM at 1,600 to 1,800 RPM whereas the MD30 only gets up to 130NM between 2,400 and 3,250 RPM.
Although it is easy to build the adaptor kit, this is not an implicit acknowledgement that your old transmission is up to the task. You dont want to discover that your old transmission cant handle the torque of the new engine after it has been installed in the boat.
I'll answer your points in bold within your last post.
Stanley
Sergy wrote:
I am not sure if my transmissions can handel the 50, I do not like hydralic transmission so I would need to go down to 43 which I am scard of as all I read seems to indicate best to go more on HP not less.The Valiant 40 is a 26,000 lb boat and performs better with the 43 than it does with the 50. This is because the propeller is more efficient. Your boat is 24,000 so you should have no problems.
Does the 43 torque allow for my volvo transmission. In a word, yes it does but, you must remember that if you have a problem with the transmission you will be back to square one. Some parts for these old MS transmissions are no longer available and those that are, are very expensive. Next time I have boat out of water I will switch propeller to 18 X13 but I was hoping that I could get by with the existing prop till next fall It has been driving boat for last 30 years and I hope it would last an other summer with a new Beta Marine motor. I said in an earlier post that this is the wrong prop for the new engine. It makes no sense to spend all this time and money on a repower and then cause problems and have poor performance with a propeller that will overload the engine.
To remove my present coupling I would have to remove U-Joint from 1 1/14 inch shaft bring to machine shop as you suggested have them cut the old off and reweld new coupling half This is a simple job for any competant machine shop to do. That is why I was hoping to use my volvo transmission so I do not have to do this hard task I beleive it will be heard to remove female from prop shaft. especilly when nothing is holding the shaft from following any pull I may exert on U-Joint. If I go up to hydralic tran for 50 hp I am faced with a tecnoligy that needs hydrolick pressure to hold the clutch cones together if I jog between reverse and forward it seems like a more volnerable tecnoligy. Hydraulic transmissions are actually very reliable and last a very long time. Usually longer than the mechanical ones. All car and truck automatic transmissions are hydraulic. There is a mechanical transmission that we can use behind the 50. This is the ZF15MA. The only problem is that this is a much more expensive option. If the 50Hp and the 43 HP are the same why can we not use the same transmission option.The physical size of the engines is the same but the 50 has more torque and HP than the 43.
-- Edited by Sergy on Wednesday 29th of May 2013 08:15:26 AM
Thanks Stanley for all your coaching and patience. I will go ahead and order the Beta Marine 43 HP with the TMC60A 7* FOR LEFT HAND PROP Oil cooler required Below are a few Items I will also order please advice on proper choice Hot water fittings (for Cabin Heater and hot water heat exchanger) Ask for fuel filter in the upward position so as to make it easier to change from Port side Get the Remote oil filter kit 8 high riser ?? GET THE 100 AMP ALTERNATOR with serpentine belt setup Send dimension information regarding engine feet position so beta marine can fabricate . Would you recommend a water lift muffler presently I have a 2 SS goose neck which rises 10 above water line then 2 hose slopes to inline muffler about 8 feet away and from there out the back 3 feet away via 2 inch about 3 Inches above water line. I am not sure, if we have a water lift on bottom of hull if there may be too much back pressure in exhaust system, it would have to lift water about 5 feet high, would I still need 8 inch riser as we would go down to water lift muffler from engine then up gooseneck and then drain to inline muffler. I will change prop to 18X13 Which transmission ratio would you suggest?
Please email me directly. I can then forward the drawing for the special mounts.
As far as your exhaust is concerned, I will be in a better position to comment after I have actually seen what you have. Can you please take some general photos of the exhaust layout and email them to me ( stan@betamarinenc.com )
The prop calcs that I worked out for you are based on a 2:1 transmission ratio. If you went with a 2.45:1 transmission, you would need to go with a 20" propeller to get a really efficient unit. Please note that the TMC60 A (down angle version) will only work with a RH propeller. Only the standard TMC60 (drop center but parallel output coupling) can be used with a RH or a LH propeller when the oil cooler is fitted.
Regards, Stanley
-- Edited by Stanley on Thursday 30th of May 2013 01:50:08 PM
Hi Stanley On we go, just when I thought I was ready to order now the transmission does not have left hand capabilities so I called prop. cpmpany Michigan wheel and asked for 18" X12 RH propeller and they said it would take over 8 weeks delivery I would like to be away First week in July,so I am going back to plan "B" 43 HP BOBTAIL and I will use one of my 2 volvo penta transmissions MS2B ratio 2.37:1 This should be able to handel 43 HP torque and I have a spare transmission for spare parts.Ps we may need to recalculate speed using this ratio of 2.37:1 instead of 2:1 ratio could you please provide drawings that allow match between MS2B and 43 HP Beta Marine I need the thickness of plate before we can determin where the feet position will be. Also we will need to some how attach to oil cooler. Thanks again
Our supplier has the propeller in stock so lead time is only a few days for UPS. Michigan Wheel supply their distributors who keep inventory. Any one off order will take its time as they are working to fill their distributors orders.
As far as a special drawing is concerned, if you want one you must place an order with a deposit. The factory will not produce a special drawing without having an engine to marry it up to. These drawings take time, need to be checked by you and this will be a special build engine so please allow for the time it takes to fit into the build schedule. We have the standard Beta 43's in stock but special build takes time.
I have redone the prop calc using the 2.37:1 ratio. The first call is for 20"x13" three blade with 50% BAR. If you stay with an 18" diameter, the extra pitch makes the prop less efficient and thus you will lose a bit of boat speed.
Again, I cannot provide any pricing on this forum so I suggest that you email me directly.
